Interview With Shawn Ray

One of the most spectacular pro-bodybuilders of the latter part of the 20-century would be Shawn Ray - a man often referred to as having the perfect combination of mass and aesthetics. For over 17-years, Shawn has wowed bodybuilding audiences with a perfectly presented package of quality muscle, narrowly, and often controversially, losing the Olympia on many occasions.

The qualities Shawn has in abundance (muscle symmetry, definition, presentation skills, and great muscle shape) appear to be overlooked today in favor of the more massive physique according to Shawn. This has prompted him to award worthy competitors with a best presentation award and openly condemn the current emphasis on the 'mass at all costs' approach.

Half a lifetime dieting and training to win bodybuilding's most converted prize, the Mr. Olympia, has given Shawn unparalleled insight concerning bodybuilding politics and the professional system as a whole: he feels the system needs to change to accommodate a dwindling fan base and reward the athletes who are overlooked in favor of the more massive individuals. "I walked away from competition because I wanted to live a healthier life" said Shawn. "I didn't want to raise the bar to the standard the judges are now rewarding."

A man much admired, and often derided, for his propensity to speak his mind and 'tell it like it is', Shawn never distanced himself to far from controversy, and always kept the bodybuilding media well-stocked with personal predictions and his own, sometimes vitriolic, brand of bodybuilding commentary.

One of bodybuilding's meteoric risers, Shawn achieved his pro-card by winning the 1987 Nationals at the age of 22, at 196lbs, on his very first attempt. His first pro-show, the 1988 Night of the Champions, where he secured forth-place, and an invite to the Mr Olympia, presented Shawn with a golden opportunity to highlight the physique of a new era.



Shawn Ray When He Won The Nationals & Got His Pro Card.
Shawn's first Olympia was not the most auspicious of starts simply due to his lack of experience, but a win at the first ever Iron-Man pro two-years later (in 1990) gave him confidence to realize his destiny as one of the best ever.

Since this win Shawn has accumulated 13-years experience as an Olympia competitor and has gone down in history as one of the most persistent, and consistently well conditioned pros of all time.

In the following interview Shawn talks about his life in bodybuilding and reveals all about the current state of the sport.

[ Q ] Where are you living at the moment Shawn?

Yorba Linda. Which is in Orange County Southern California, 10 mins East of Disneyland. The Birth and resting place of former President of the United States, Richard Nixon.

[ Q ] I understand you just arrived back from Istanbul, Turkey? What exactly were you doing over there?

I had four seminars to do over there. They bought me in to Speak & Lecture about information related to:
Training
Nutrition
Supplementation
Competition
Health & Fitness
Bodybuilding 101
As well as the Shawn Ray story.
That's what I do. I travel the world performing professional seminars and training exhibitions. I don't pose anymore. The last time I posed on a bodybuilding stage was in Okinawa, Japan August of 2002. My last contest was the Mr. Olympia in Las Vegas, Nevada in 2001.

[ Q ] What have you been doing since your last contest Shawn?

Since my last contest in October of 2001, I have been working for and representing Weider / AMI Publications, the same company I have been sponsored by for the last 17 years of my professional career.

My contract expired on February 28th of this year and I'll be moving on.

Yes, I will immediately begin working with and representing the nutrition company called Vyo-Tech Nutritionals out of Beverly Hills, California as their spokesperson and representative at trade shows, contests, exhibitions and conventions for the next two years effective March 1st, 2005.

[ Q ] Tell me about your Muscle Camps?

I just got back from Johannesburg, South Africa this past November, promoting the first ever Muscle Camp Seminar / Posing and Contest! My Co-promoter, Tommy Fraser and I took top professional bodybuilders:
Troy Alves
Melvin Anthony
Lee Powell

As well as:

Fitness Queen, Adela Freidmansky
& Fitness/Model, Timea Majorova.

The pro bodybuilders took part in judging bodybuilders at a South African competition. We then had the athletes perform a posing exhibition and seminar. Next, we provided the fans with an opportunity to train with the Pro bodybuilders.

I hold Muscle Camps every year with others planned in the future including, Las Vegas.
I have also have had them in Dublin, Ireland, Miami, Florida and Sydney, Australia - so I am really getting a lot more support for the Muscle Camps from pro Athletes to the fans!


Bodybuilders in Turkey are now wanting one there. With every Muscle Camp I like to try and bring in new athletes, both bodybuilding/fitness and figure for the different markets.
I'm taking this show on the road and to the fans because not a lot of people can afford to visit California every day and live the bodybuilding dream, or come out to Gold's Gym in Venice Beach, Ca. to pick the brains of the Pro bodybuilders.

Therefore, I chose three to five Pro athletes and take the information and show to the fans!

[ Q ] When are you bringing a Muscle Camp to New Zealand?

That would be awesome! As a matter of fact, last year we had Muscle Camps in both Melbourne and Sydney, Australia. Muscle Camps will only work if I can work with someone from a particular region who can promote it there, while I gather the talent and help with the marketing side of things over here.

Essentially we are catering to certain clientele and we just want to ensure they get their moneys worth.

[ Q ] Tell me about the post Olympia seminars?

For the past 6 years the day after the Olympia, I have been putting on seminars with all the top Pros. This year I had four out of the five top five guys, including Ronnie Coleman, Markus Ruhl, Gunter Schlierkamp Dexter Jackson and Jay Cutler. Also I had Kevin Levrone and Flex Wheeler, kind of the "where are they now type guys".


This is a big task given that this is 24-hours after the Mr. Olympia Contest and the bodybuilders take their shirts of and pose for the fans and answer questions for 2 hours!

As well, I raffle off personal items belonging to the Pros and give away a "VIP ALL EXPENSE PAID" trip to contests as my personal guest!

[ Q ] Explain the "Best Presentation Award" you developed following the Mr. Olympia?
This is where I present an award for the finest display of posing. Last year Melvin Anthony won the award. This year it was presented to Darrem Charles. I gather other Professional Bodybuilders and we collectively decide based on the following criteria who the winner of the $10,000.00 Award is:

Choreography
Musical Score
Entertainment
Smooth Transitions
Best Poses
Balance and Harmony.

Any athlete on that stage is capable of winning this award without bias or politics. As an athlete I put a lot of emphasis on the "Presentation" side of the sport to entertain the fans. Sponsors include:

Pure Performance Nutrition
Crisis Management Event Services
Pharmagenx
Gerstner & Associates
M&F / Flex Magazines
Muscular Development
Muscle Mag. INT.
Body Rock Productions
Love Productions
Kristie Ray
Shawn Ray Productions
Stronghold Ministries

I feel that competitors should be rewarded for going the extra mile to perform for the paying audience.

[ Q ] Do you feel a bodybuilder like Darrem Charles, who has perfected his presentation, will ever place toward the top based purely on his presentation and symmetry or will he continually be relegated toward the lower end of the top ten? What is the state of judging in the IFBB today?

He will continue to be relegated toward the bottom of the top ten of the Mr. Olympia not based on lack of quality but quite simply because, and I will be emphatic here:
"The Judges Will Not Rotate!"

There is currently a total lack of rotation within the pool of IFBB judges currently qualified to judge. Once you're an IFBB judge, you're always an IFBB judge. Meaning, typically there are a hand-full of judges, mostly from the USA, who preside over an "International" pool of competitors.

Bodybuilders are simply not being judged by a jury of their peers. For example:
A guy like Kris Dim being placed 13th at the Olympia while Markus Ruhl places 5th.
Only a week later he beats Markus Ruhl in Europe TWICE during the same week, in basically the same condition as the Mr. Olympia but with totally different judges?

The Mr. Olympia judging has become an embarrassment to the fans and a lot of the athletes. I have the emails, phone calls and response from the fans when I travel for seminars around the world and they are emphatic!

This problem can be easily ratified through "Proper judge rotation" annually, so that not one single judge on that panel judges the Mr. Olympia in consecutive years.

If you have 60 judges qualified and you only need twelve, there is no reason why we cant have a different panel of judges each year?

If you are an IFBB card-carrying judge, you should have the opportunity to judge the biggest bodybuilding competition in the world, PERIOD! Sadly, however that is not the case. I personally know of Professional IFBB Judges whom have NEVER judged the Mr. Olympia that have been judges for years.

The flip side is, I also know some Pro judges that virtually judge the contest EVERY YEAR!
I don't know whether it is a control factor or what, but ALL judges should be entitled to gain the relevant experience by virtue of a random selection process giving them all an equal chance to partake in and event as big as the Mr. Olympia.

Many judges are alienated based on the language barriers and their geographic location. The problem is, if you are able to judge a show in Italy without speaking Italian, you should be able to judge a show in America because the judges shouldn't be talking anyway - the outcome is based on a points system and it is a physique contest.

This is an area beyond my control but the fans and athletes are equally disturbed by the lack of changing opinions that direct the outcome of this contest.

[ Q ] Is this system to blame for the lack of variation in exactly who wins the Mr. Olympia year after year?

The multiple winners we have seen are a sheer reflection of the lack of rotation of opinions and the people who are judging this show. There is no reason why Jay Cutler, Flex Wheeler, Kevin Levrone and myself haven't won a Sandow trophy?

It is not like we did not have a chance to win, it was that people who judge each year don't change what they like each year.

Meaning, if the judge likes mass then balance symmetry and conditioning will lose out every time and every year.

[ Q ] Does this lack of rotation explain why a guy like Dexter Jackson can't place second or ever win the Mr. Olympia, when clearly in the opinion of many he should be right up there with Ronnie?

I don't know whether it is a control factor. These placing's reflect the outcome of a system that is still being twisted and tweaked and not a reflection of actually what the fans see. There is no accountability on the part of the judges.

No one on behalf of the athletes to ask them questions of how and why this happens, which is why the bodybuilders do articles and interviews to express how they truly feel.

Things are only to be threatened by the federation or talked about behind their backs by the very judges who will judge them again down the road.

Who Is Judging The JUDGES?

They are not beyond criticism and evaluation in my eyes. I call things as I see them and some of them don't like what I am saying but what I say regarding these matters I have lived, witnessed and painfully suffered through.

When a judge takes what I am saying personally, they probably have some guilt in them knowing I am speaking the TRUTH!

[ Q ] What are your thoughts on the new "Challenge round?"

To put in a new round like the challenge round that gets judged on the spot in front of the fans pulls the curtain back on the Wizards of Oz. It exposed some of what is wrong with our judges and clearly, there were going to be some casualties.

The vast majority of the athletes were not in favour of this round. They felt they could be knocked off their perch at any time without rhyme or reason.

The challenge round eliminated the entire pre-judging round. They essentially started the whole contest over and I didn't feel it was a fair way and had no bearing on the final result according to the way the round was introduced. I will give the federation credit because they went out on a limb and tried something different and I'm all for change.

Next time, why not just start with ALL NEW JUDGES! That said, there are bugs within this new round that will need to be ironed out, but a lot of athletes will fall by the wayside before this happens.

[ Q ] What is your biggest concern within Pro bodybuilding today?

The biggest problem we have, and this is part of the reason I quit being the IFBB Athletes Representative, is that the athletes complaints fall on deaf ears and there is little to no is change when the athletes voice their concerns.

There are certain promoters that don't pay some athletes (James Goad Orlando Pro and Nimrod King Toronto Pro) after the show is over and these athletes have no way of recouping their prize money?

The federation doesn't lift a hand in support and the our Vice President does not guarantee the promoter will pay even after issuing a sanction fee to the promoter which is the saddest part of all.

These guys bust their humps to compete for their money and for the fans, as well as commit to the promoter but they have zero support in getting paid in full!



[ Q ] Who will take over from you as Athletes Rep?

Well, the next person with the biggest mouth is Bob Cicherillo. Bob is a good friend of mine with the same passion and love for the sport with the best interests of the athletes in his heart.
He is qualified to be the Athletes Rep based on his ability to stand by his word and he has an opinion. I was told he is taking over the position by "Appointment" However, I had to round up 98 Signatures by way of Email, Fax and Phone Calls around the world to get the position.
You feeling my pain yet?

No matter who is the Athletes Rep they will run into the same brick walls I ran into - a system that nobody can infiltrate. The division of the athletes is what keeps the old system in place.
Change is needed at the higher level, not just with Wayne Demilia being Axed as Vice President of the IFBB but the whole system. When a year has gone by and there is absolutely nothing accomplished and nothing has been changed in the way of increased prize money, new judges etc..., we have a big problem.

There are athletes that qualify for the Mr. Olympia these days who sit the contest out. 10-years-ago no one would have passed on a ticket to the Mr. Olympia that they earned by qualifying. Craig Titus, Shari Kamali and myself have sat out the Mr. Olympia.

Lee Priest doesn't even want to compete in this contest. There is a problem when the athletes don't have respect for the way the contest is run. Especially when their inclusion in the developmental process of the show is excluded!

[ Q ] Where do think bodybuilding is heading in terms of gaining a broader public acceptance and support?

I don't think bodybuilding is gaining support. The public can only get fed so much SIZE! If you only start judging a bodybuilding contest on size alone this will not enhance its profile and the lower attendance numbers and general television coverage reflects that.
We don't even wind up in the local newspaper the day after the Mr. Olympia contest (The Arnold Classic does though - Learn More)! There is a large population of people out there who are into proportion, condition, shape, symmetry and presentation. All these things are all being overlooked for size. The IFBB has Pay-Per-View for the Olympia, yet nothing financially ever gets back to the Athletes.

If this continues, the fan base will continue to be limited and the next generation of athletes that might be interested will turn away. You've got to remember that the present Mr. Olympia competes at 297 lbs. If one is 200 lbs, they probably are not going to go very far in this industry.
I was one of the fortunate few. Up and coming stars quickly get woken up to reality on the Olympia stage you can ask Rookie Pro, Richard Jones whom some magazine were heralding as the future Mr. O? NOT!

Not with these judges, not in my lifetime.

The bar been raised so high by the judges over-rewarding the freaky mass and size, that not only will you have athletes questioning whether competing is worth it financially or in terms of general health, but also asking themselves what they can do if they are 5'8 or under?

It would be like the NBA having nothing but Centers (ie. Shaq, Mutumbo, Ewing, Duncan). There has to be room for the Kobe Bryant's (Kobe OKs payout to accuser), Allen Iverson's and Jason Kidd's in the game to cater to everybody of different talent and skills
There are some great bodybuilders who will never have the opportunity to win the big one with these judges simply because it will always be the same people judging who are caught up with the emphasis on MASS!

[ Q ] So this is why bodybuilding is losing popularity?

The present criteria is unattainable for 98% of the population.

When I started bodybuilding back in 1983-84 I had guys like Mohammed Makkaway, Chris Dickerson, and Bob Paris (who was very large compared to me.)

These guys had shape, aesthetics, balance, beauty and symmetry - a certain look that wasn't so chemically enhanced, and which didn't look like a science project.

Adjectives like pretty, shapely, artistic were applied to these gladiators of the iron game and I wanted to be one of them.

I think this is what Joe Weider's (Bodybuilding.com is doing an interview with Joe, click here to sign up for updates.) vision of the sport was going to be like and then something changed.
I mean today you have synthol, growth hormone and insulin running rampant.

Words like gross, gh gut, freak, mass monster and beasts are being tossed around in our industry referring to the best in our business. My how times have changed.

Some bodybuilding magazines shy away from these freaky bodybuilders claiming they hurt sales? We have athletes getting arrested and charged with distribution of steroids and growth hormone to make ends meet. It's ridiculous.

[ Q ] How big a reality is synthol in pro bodybuilding?

Oh yeah - it's a reality. The problem is although there is a rule that clearly states a bodybuilder will be marked down for this that and that, the rules are never enforced?

Lou Ferrigno competed in Helsinki, Finland in 1992 for his comeback, with complete calf implants! Then he went on to compete in 93', 94 and 95 with these calf implants. What gives? The rules state that calf implants are illegal! An athlete can be suspended for having them.
Did You Know?That Lou Ferrigno will make you PAY for a picture with him at bodybuilding expo's. Check out the sign on the video I took (Will - Bodybuilding.com Webmaster) of him last year at the Olympia here...

Synthol use is rampant. Nasser El Sonbaty had surgery on both shoulders as a result of synthol. Milos Sarcev had both his biceps operated on because of Synthol.

Flex Wheeler admitted to using Synthol after his career was over during the time he was at the peak!

The federation made a rule in 1997 that the judges would mark down everybody who had a "distended stomachs". The competitor with the biggest distended stomach was the winner of the show Dorian Yates, Mr. Olympia which included a torn biceps and triceps.

With arm, he single handedly dominated the competition based on what the judges were looking at, now that was a joke!


When I started bodybuilding I had total control over what I could do to my body and at that time, Lee Haney was the measuring stick at 245lbs.

Then there was the Dorian Yates era at a winning bodyweight of 255lbs. At present, Ronnie Coleman has taken it to another level competing at 297lbs. Where are we heading?

There is a large population of fans and sponsors who want to draw a line in the sand.

Could Ronnie Coleman have lost a few of those Olympia's? Certainly. Could Kevin Levrone, Flex Wheeler or Jay Cutler have won at least one? Yes!

When the fans pay to see one thing and the judges give them another, clearly the fans and the athletes get disgruntled and many of them walk away from the sport. I walked away from competition because I wanted to live a healthier life. I didn't want to raise the bar to the standard the judges are now rewarding.

The judges have now issued a statement to the women that they have to reduce their muscularity by 20%. The judges shouldn't tell the athletes how to train and look instead, reward the women who win the contest by sticking to a judging criteria that rewards less muscular women.

So the outcome of the contest is controlled by the judges, not by the athletes?
The contests are becoming much more controlled by the judges. When the judges pass the baton on to the athletes and say they are too muscular, then it makes it look like the athletes are doing something wrong when the judges should be the ones looking in the mirror and saying, "Maybe we shouldn't pick the most muscular female in the contest, we should pick a champion that reflects the direction we want to go in."

The choice may not be a popular one but fits what our criteria is because this is what we what our sport to be. It doesn't make the woman feel less of a woman because we pick the less muscular female. It means we have criteria that we are looking for and that will be rewarded.
[ Q ] What about a guy like Ronnie Coleman who is thought to be both big and symmetrical?
The judges are trying to tell us that Ronnie Coleman is the standard. Unfortunately, it was the same judges that chose Dorian Yates. If I can tell you in January the name of at least five judges sitting on the panel in October, we have a problem. We have a problem with how these judges are selected.

"Who Is Picking These Judges & How Are They Picked?"

No one in bodybuilding knows how these judges are picked? I competed in the contest for 13 years and I don't have the answer to that question? Let me tell you something:

The Mr. Olympia is just like the Super bowl of football. The referee's of professional football are picked out of however many referees they have throughout the year. They are randomly picked by the NFL to judge the Super-bowl 5 or 6 of them - the cr�me de la cr�me of football. However, when we get to the Mr. Olympia, there is a mystery as to how these judges are chosen?

The judges are not being chosen on a set criteria that athletes or the fans are aware of and we happen to be PAID Members of this federation meaning there should be some sort of "Inclusion" regarding this mysterious process.

This is why you have people judging the Olympia multiple times.

So I think our biggest problems are: General perception in regard to the abuse of anabolic steroids, marketability, cross-over appeal, judging criteria, lack of rotation in the judges, the alienation of judges who are qualified but will never have the opportunity to judge and the overemphasis on mass being the main criteria.

[ Q ] Do you feel you should have won an Olympia by now?

The contracts that I have had, the marketability I have achieved in our sport, the money that I have earned in the bodybuilding industry and the way the fans have been behind me over the course of my career have shown to me that I should have won at some time or another. There were many Mr. Olympia contests where it was close but no cigar.

The sole criteria was height and weight and unfortunately for me, when I entered bodybuilding Chris Dickerson at 5.5 and 189 lbs was Mr. Olympia and I thought anything was possible.
However, I came on in the heels of Lee Haney at 5.11 and 250lbs. They then replaced Haney with an even bigger Dorian Yates. Now they have replaced Yates with still yet a bigger version again in the form of Ronnie Coleman.

It has gotten to the point where it is a forgone conclusion that the defending champion never loses. I want to go on record as saying that the last Mr. Olympia Champion to have lost on stage was 21-years-ago in 1984.

This was when Lee Haney beat Samir Bannout. As far as me not winning the contest, obviously for personal satisfaction the trophy would have nice but I think the fans and the puritans of bodybuilding have solidified my place in the sport of bodybuilding history based on what they saw and bore witness to.

Photo's don't lie and being there in person to witness these contests are an even better testimony for me when people reflect on my past achievement or lack there of.



[ Q ] What do you believe in Shawn and are you a part of any groups or organizations?

I am presently enrolled in 3 bible study classes as well as attend the Rock Community Church on Sundays with my wife whose name is Kristie. We have been married going on 2 yrs (April 4th, 2003).

I am a Christian and looking forward to what God has in store for me and my family.
As a bodybuilder, I neglected this spiritual side of my life and relied on myself and my own efforts to carry me through the tough times but I soon realized that through Jesus Christ who sustains me, "All things are possible" as I am now an Ambassador for Christ who died on the Cross for my sins.

[ Q ] Thank you for your time Shawn. It has been pleasure to interview you.

My pleasure and God Bless you Dave.

By David Robson